貼圖、程式等,版主可任意修改或刪除,轉貼文章請多用連結,一天 (00:00-23:59) 請只開一個話題,請大家合作,謝謝。11/14/2018 22:02:51     意見庫存
 

外獨會意見交流

 

台灣的中小學教室該裝地源熱泵系統而不是裝冷氣機

發言人:挖地雷, on Jun/19/2018    10:31:30 (IP code: X.X.179.119)
 

Geothermal Heat Pumps
Geothermal heat pumps, also referred to as ground source heat pumps or geo-exchange, refer to systems that use the ground, groundwater, or surface water as a heat source or sink. Specific to their configuration, these systems are referred to as ground-coupled heat pumps, groundwater heat pumps, and surface water heat pumps, respectively. The first successful commercial project was installed in the Commonwealth Building in Portland, Oregon in 1946. As of 2004, the United States had 12 gigawatts of installed thermal capacity from geothermal heat pumps, with an additional 80,000 units installed each year.

Geothermal heat pumps use 25% to 50% less electricity than conventional heating or cooling systems. Relative to air-source heat pumps, they are quieter, last longer, need little maintenance, and do not depend on the temperature of the outside air. Considerations including utility rates for electricity, natural gas, or other fuels can impact decisions to implement this technology.

While most sites throughout the United States can utilize geothermal heat pump technologies, certain site characteristics will influence the type of system most suitable for a site. Available ground area, thermal conductivity of the surrounding soil, local ground water availability and temperatures, or access to open water sources can further direct their use in a project.

This overview is intended to provide specific details for Federal agencies considering geothermal heat pump technologies as part of a new construction project or major renovation. Further general information is available from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE) Geothermal Heat Pump Basics.
 

Record ID: 1529375490   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Japchink, on Jun/19/2018    10:36:48 (IP code: X.X.185.23)
 裝這個系統能為黨國撈多少好處呢??

你根本就是要搞垮黨國台電黨部吧!!
 

Record ID: 1529375490R001   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:挖地雷, on Jun/19/2018    11:13:46 (IP code: X.X.179.119)
 

A geothermal heat pump system is made up of several key components including:
  • Ground loop
  • Heat pump
  • Air delivery system.

The ground loop is a system of pipes that is buried in the shallow ground near the building. A fluid circulates through the ground loop to absorb or relinquish heat within the ground. In the winter, the heat pump removes the heat from the fluid in the pipe, concentrates it, and transfers it to the building. This process is reversed in the summer. The air delivery system uses conventional ductwork or pipe systems to distribute the heated or cooled air throughout the building.

Like refrigerators, heat pumps operate on the basic principle that fluid absorbs heat when it evaporates into a gas, and likewise gives off heat when it condenses back into a liquid. A geothermal heat pump system can be used for both heating and cooling. The types of heat pumps that are adaptable to geothermal energy are water-to-air and water-to-water. Heat pumps are available with heating capacities of less than 3 kilowatts (kW) to over 1,500 kW.
 

Record ID: 1529375490R002   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jun/19/2018    11:19:34 (IP code: X.X.6.175)
 >裝這個系統能為黨國撈多少好處呢??

单位制冷量的初期投资更大,难道不应该更好捞吗?
 

Record ID: 1529375490R003   From: 新加坡

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jun/19/2018    11:21:37 (IP code: X.X.6.175)
 按这个命名法,“冷气机”也是“空气源热泵”啊

不知道COP值能差多少?
 

Record ID: 1529375490R004   From: 新加坡

回信 發言人:Redhunter, on Jun/19/2018    11:54:02 (IP code: X.X.200.47)
 單獨 Heat Pump 一樣工具恐怕不足以擔當全面的冷氣要求,
教室大樓屋頂空著也是浪費,何不裝太陽能板?
而 Heat Pump 及 太陽能 都需要冷氣機送風,
所以最好是設計一種整合冷氣機、 Heat Pump、 及 太陽能的系統,
有免費的就用免費的,不足時冷氣機自動補上,才不至於特殊情況熱死學生!
 

Record ID: 1529375490R005   From: 美國

回信 發言人:挖地雷, on Jun/19/2018    11:55:17 (IP code: X.X.179.119)
 

Geothermal heat pump technologies can be utilized to meet both heating and cooling needs in new construction as well as major renovation projects. Incorporating these technologies into major renovation projects will generally result in higher installation costs than in new construction projects, but can operate at a greater efficiency than typical heating and cooling units. Typical geothermal heat pump systems have a coefficient of performance of 3.5 to 4.0, indicating that for every unit of electricity input to the compression, 3.5 to 4.0 units of heating, or cooling, are produced. A common gas furnace, for example, has an equivalent coefficient of performance of 0.85. Depending on the existing heating and cooling systems in place, incorporating geothermal heat pump systems may not be feasible. Existing buildings with a dedicated boiler and central air handling system are typically most applicable for retrofit scenarios.

At the present time, ground-coupled and groundwater heat pump systems are the two main types of geothermal heat pump systems that are being installed in great numbers in the United States—around 120,000 units per year. Groundwater aquifers and soil temperatures in the range of 40°F to 90°F (5°C to 30°C) are being used in these systems. Just about every state in the United States, especially in the Midwest and eastern states are using these systems; in part, subsidized by public and private utilities. It is estimated that over 1.0 million units (12 kW) are installed throughout the United States. Annual growth rates are around 15%, the fastest of all the direct-use applications.
 

Record ID: 1529375490R006   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Rockyiwu, on Jun/19/2018    11:59:48 (IP code: X.X.191.47)
 六月底放暑假應該不至於熱死人 

Record ID: 1529375490R007   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Redhunter, on Jun/19/2018    12:02:46 (IP code: X.X.200.47)
 > 整合冷氣機、 Heat Pump、 及 太陽能的系統

其實美國住宅許多已採用這種整合式冷暖系統,
不是甚麼新產品,也無高深技術,無需花大錢找人研發的!
 

Record ID: 1529375490R008   From: 美國

回信 發言人:挖地雷, on Jun/19/2018    12:11:11 (IP code: X.X.179.119)
 > 其實美國住宅許多已採用這種整合式冷暖系統,
> 不是甚麼新產品,也無高深技術,無需花大錢找人研發的!

是的,綠建築在台灣只是口號,不是政策。
 

Record ID: 1529375490R009   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:艾弓北蔡, on Jun/19/2018    12:13:16 (IP code: X.X.241.49)
 >>>Geothermal heat pumps use 25% to 50% less electricity than conventional heating or cooling systems.

This is not true. Heat pumps will save energy on heating, but uses the same amount of energy on cooling.
 

Record ID: 1529375490R010   From: 美國

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jun/19/2018    12:14:41 (IP code: X.X.132.148)
 在咱们这边儿,中产+或者比较有钱的农民住的小独栋里应用的已经不少。


==================
地源热泵缺点分析

随着人们生活水平的提高和科技的进一步发展,我们不在满足于中央空调的制冷制热设计,节能环保的地源热泵越来越多的受到广大用户的青睐。任何事情都有两面性,我们在看到地源热泵优点的时候也要看到地源热泵可能存在的问题。地源热泵主要有三种形式,土壤源热泵、地表水热泵和地下水热泵,每种类型的地源热泵有点就不统一介绍了,下面来说说不同类型地源热泵的缺点。
土壤源热泵
土壤源热泵就是利用土壤的热量来进行供暖制冷的,但是实际上地下土壤、卵石与岩石的传热,地下含水层的热迁移都是十分缓慢的,如果我们不遵守年热平衡原则,在装修设计的时候没有考虑好这些,就会造成很大的问题。比如说真的每年夏季累计向地下排放的热量大于冬季累计吸取的热量,即使该地区地下恒温带每年只升高0.5℃,10年后该地源热泵系统就不能有效正常工作了。且使用地埋管地源热泵,属于闭式系统,虽然垂直埋管系统占地面积小,水系统耗电少,但钻井费用高。即使没有抽取地表水、地下水,但它改变了地内温度,影响地质,甚至植物的生长。
土壤源地源热泵机组要求全年冷负荷和热负荷要基本均衡,这样才不至于发生地下热环境恶化。在30~300m深的地下,只要其全年的总取热量与总排热量相等,就能持久地维持恒温带的状态;但是实际造作的时候是很难做到的,而且地源热泵的工程验收也比较麻烦,需要专业的知识才行。

地表水源热泵
地表水源热泵对使用地域有一定的要求,只有深度在10米以上的江河湖海才有使用的可能性。首先,地源热泵的初投资比较高。一套小型的家用地源热泵系统初投资在十几万以上,大型商用的地源热泵的造价就更高一些,虽然后期使用费用低,但是一次性要拿这么多的钱还是比较吃力的。从目前来看,家用地源热泵的安装大多集中在别墅用户,我们也经常可以在别墅装修效果图当中看到这样的设计。
其次,地源热泵系统复杂,安装难度大。地源热泵对设计、施工、施工现场管理要求都比很高,需要有专业的技术人员参与其中。深层的地表水如果在安装隐蔽工程地源热泵时候破坏了水层的温度变化,将会对水生物造成毁灭性的打击。从目前情况来看,虽然全国做暖通的公司很多,但是真正拥有专业地源热泵安装施工技术的公司并不多。
地下水源热泵
目前在我国,技术上相对成熟、利用可行性较大、实施的工程项目较多的是地下水热泵系统。但是这也是最有可能出现问题的。主要包括以下几个方面,
1、利用地下水是需要打井的,用过的水要及时回灌。在回灌过程中,会造成井中砂的移动,当大量的井砂移出后,往往会造成抽水井的塌陷,同时也造成了回水井的堵塞,缩短了井的寿命。

2、在多数地质条件下,很多工程实际上并未达到100%回灌。而且回灌后土壤中的水质和水量并不能与抽水前完全一致,大量地下水的抽取和回灌必然造成地下水位的不平衡,影响当地的地质构造,有可能危害地上的建筑物。例如华北地区形成4万平方公里的华北大漏斗;西安由于地下水过量开采,导致大雁塔倾斜近1m,并且形成十三条纵、横向裂缝,长达50公里,钟楼下陷135rot/1。
只取水不进行有效回灌或回灌不慎造成地下水污染的都是极不负责任的行为,并且这种不负责任的行为造成的损失是无法挽回的。我们在安装地源热泵的时候要看清楚这点。
 

Record ID: 1529375490R011   From: 新加坡

回信 發言人:PLAN, on Jun/19/2018    12:16:10 (IP code: X.X.132.148)
 忘了在分隔线上写转字 

Record ID: 1529375490R012   From: 新加坡

回信 發言人:摸咪郎, on Jun/19/2018    12:17:05 (IP code: X.X.88.235)
 




摸咪郎
 

Record ID: 1529375490R013   From: 美國

回信 發言人:摸咪郎, on Jun/19/2018    12:19:28 (IP code: X.X.88.235)
 R013 的數字是偏低的.


摸咪郎
 

Record ID: 1529375490R014   From: 美國

回信 發言人:ddt, on Jun/19/2018    12:28:59 (IP code: X.X.76.44)
 
The emergence of agricultural revolution 8,000 years ago allowed for the massive accumulation of material possessions by a few, usually by appropriating surplus labour of others. The resulting inequality enabled the few to get a 'harem' of women.

Psychopathic personalities, unbounded by codes of morality or empathy, naturally thrives in times of chaos and violence.

Give the multiple cycles of dynastic collapses China experienced in the past 2,000 years. It would be unsuprising that psychopaths predominant in the main broker in pillage, i.e. government.
 

Record ID: 1529375490R015   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:挖地雷, on Jun/19/2018    12:59:13 (IP code: X.X.179.119)
   綠建築的首要重點是環保,能不能省錢應該是排在次要的考量,個案間的差異也會很大。 

Record ID: 1529375490R016   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Japchink, on Jun/19/2018    15:03:58 (IP code: X.X.185.23)
 我黨國台電黨部蓋個核四,

可以蓋30年,可以撈3000億,

你那種乞丐級的東西算了吧!!
 

Record ID: 1529375490R017   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Japchink, on Jun/19/2018    15:05:20 (IP code: X.X.185.23)
 >>綠建築的首要重點是環保,能不能省錢應該是排在次要的考量,

能撈多少才是最主要的考量啊!!
 

Record ID: 1529375490R018   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:Shit, on Jun/19/2018    17:55:09 (IP code: X.X.54.86)
 
> 其實美國住宅許多已採用這種整合式冷暖系統,
> 不是甚麼新產品,也無高深技術,無需花大錢找人研發的!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The concept behind the design of Heat Pump is quite fundamental indeed.


"是的,綠建築在台灣只是口號,不是政策。"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

正確! 令人悲從中來, 不勝唏淤...


 

Record ID: 1529375490R019   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:黃蓉, on Jun/19/2018    22:20:06 (IP code: X.X.221.1)
 日本大地震,但是學生還是正常上學,

因為學校通常是避難所,比在家安全。

反觀台灣學校建築都是官學商勾結,

偷工減料後果,地震時率先倒的很多是學校,

更不要說綠建築政策了。
 

Record ID: 1529375490R020   From: 日本

回信 發言人:SENSOR, on Jun/19/2018    22:53:12 (IP code: X.X.222.252)
 版主所介紹的 應該只是最簡單的熱交換系統 而不是熱泵"heat pump"

這種古老的調溫系統
若是設置在地底下
想要能發揮經濟效益
關鍵之一在於如何降低鑽井的成本

所以也就跟"鑽井"相關行業產生連結
尤其是目前全球最引人矚目的鑽隧運輸公司 馬斯克的"The Boring Company"

參考: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boring_Company

Boring machines
The first three boring machines used by The Boring Company are:

* Godot,[11] a conventional tunnel boring machine, used for research purposes.

* Line-storm, a highly-modified conventional boring machine, a hybrid design, boring 2–3 time faster than pre-2018 boring machines.

* Proof-rock, a "fully-Boring-Company-designed machine", anticipated to be ten times faster than conventional boring machines, with hopes of making it even faster. Currently under development as of May 2018.

以上第三種技術 號稱能比現今的潛盾機來得快上至少十倍以上

若開發完成 且能控制住機器本身的成本
則不僅可用於城鎮地下隧道快速運輸系統
也可轉用於版主所想像的低耗能建築調溫系統
讓這類調溫系統的建造速度大幅提高 並降低其成本
 

Record ID: 1529375490R021   From: 台灣

回信 發言人:統派台灣民眾, on Jun/19/2018    23:17:26 (IP code: X.X.245.38)
 需要的是海綿校園!!!!!  

Record ID: 1529375490R022   From: 台灣

本篇到此告一段落———版主

WE ARE 49ER TAIWANESE