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馬凱:無知者不配玩核電。給馬凱的第四課:德國高階核廢料的終極處置


發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  08:50:37 (IP code: 233.222)

  從第三課開始都是介紹先進國家在高階廢核料的終極處置上的研究發展狀況,主要想指出的是:

高階廢核料的終極處置需要什麼樣的地質環境


  在這些研究發展上有具體成果的計劃中,都指向相同的兩個條件:【岩層穩定沒有地震或火山的活動】【沒有放射性核種會由地下水洩露的可能】。

  美國 Yucca Mountain 的厚層凝灰岩,它裡面的含水不飽和之礦物會把滲入的水都鎖進礦物的結晶構造裡,所以在那層凝灰岩裡不會有地下水。

  德國主要的目標是想把高階核廢料放到鹽丘 (Salt Dooms) 裡,美國也有一些地區有鹽丘,這在第三課裡有提到,在此先說一下為什麼鹽丘會入選為高階核廢料終極處置場候選人的因由,以及以鹽丘做為高階核廢料終極處置場有什麼優缺點。

  鹽丘就是一大坨鹽,為什麼岩層裡會有一大坨鹽呢?這一大坨鹽生成的原因,正是它入選為高階核廢料終極處置場候選人的優點。我們看一下死海,這塊水體是被封住了的,它的含鹽量變的非常高,因為流進來的水會帶少量鹽份進來,水會持續地被蒸發掉,帶有鹽份的水流進來,把鹽放下成為水蒸汽跑掉,長期累積下來含鹽濃度就越積越高。

  鹽丘的生成過程就類似死海,當蒸發到看不到水體了就成了鹽丘,而且水一定是要蒸發掉的才會這樣,如果是滲流走掉的水,那會把溶解在水中的鹽一起帶走,就不會生成鹽丘,所以鹽丘周圍是沒有和地下水連通的,而且這樣的封閉狀態是非常長時期的,這是會想把高階核廢料放在鹽丘裡的重要原因。

  鹽丘的缺點是如果把高階核廢料放在裡面,整個包裝核廢料的容器會向上跑,而且方向無法預估,現在把會向上跑的原因說明一下:

  鹽丘裡會有許多的小泡囊,這些小泡囊裡面包的是高鹽度的水溶液,當然每個小泡囊都是呈封閉狀態的。高階核廢料還是會生成熱的,熱對流效果會使包裝容器的上部溫度比下部高,造成熱階差 (Thermal gradient),這樣的熱階差會造成包裝容器上部周圍的圍鹽體溶解度比包裝容器下部周圍的要高些。

  這個溶解度的差異,就會導至包裝容器上方鹽體多溶解進小泡囊裡的液體中,小泡囊會變大,而連通成大泡囊。而包裝容器下方則會因為溫度低些,由上方滲下來的高濃度溶液變成過飽和,就會沈澱出固體的鹽,長久下來--上方的溶解,下方的沈澱,包裝容器就向上推升,會往哪偏移也無法預測,大至是取決於原先小泡囊群的分布,那是無法先去量度的。

  所以把高階核廢料放到鹽丘裡的做法,接下來的監測就非常重要,當然也就非常昂貴囉。

  現在來看德國的發展狀況,這和美國的 Yucca Mountain Project 有點類似,也是花了大錢勘查後停了下來,這些都是政治、經濟、人文等等的因素,並不是在找高階核廢料終極處置場候選人上走錯了方向。

無論如何,台灣都沒有這類岩層存在


Nuclear waste policy in Germany is in flux. With 17 reactors in operation, accounting for about 30% of its electricity, German planning for a permanent geologic repository began in 1974, focused on salt dome Gorleben, a salt mine near Gorleben about 100 kilometers northeast of Braunschweig.

The site was announced in 1977 with plans for a reprocessing plant, spent fuel management, and permanent disposal facilities at a single site. Plans for the reprocessing plant were dropped in 1979.

In 2000, the federal government and utilities agreed to suspend underground investigations for three to ten years, and the government committed to ending its use of nuclear power, closing one reactor in 2003.

In 2005 Angela Merkel was elected Chancellor with a promise to change the policy moving away from nuclear power, but was unsuccessful in doing so through November 2006.

Meanwhile, electric utilities have been transporting spent fuel to interim storage facilities at Gorleben, Lubmin and Ahaus until temporary storage facilities can be built near reactor sites. Previously, spent fuel was sent to France or England for reprocessing, but this practice was ended in July 2005.

German nuke waste storage site 'dead'

Germany's only storage test facility for high-level nuclear waste, into which Berlin has invested nearly $2 billion over the past years, is unsafe and needs to be closed, experts say.

German Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel, a known opponent of nuclear energy, said Wednesday that the salt dome Gorleben, chosen in the 1970s to become Germany's national storage facility for high-level nuclear waste by 2030, "is dead."

For decades, Germany and energy companies have researched Gorleben, but during recent years progress has been stalled because of political differences and public protests surrounding nuclear waste dumping.

  講是講關閉了,那德國的這些高階核廢料要往哪去呢?我的看法是火還沒燒到屁股啦,等燒到了,就還是把這塊地拿來用,美國的 Yucca Mountain 也是一樣啦,地點是好的選擇,停掉是當下的局面考量。

  拉回來看台灣,台灣的高階核廢料狀況是:等火燒到屁股時,只能兩手一攤--擺爛。

※ 歡迎轉載拷貝,可以不用注明出處

Record ID: 1303087837 From: 台灣
回信發言人:台灣鄉土情, on 18/04/2011  08:53:31 (IP code: 72.37)

挖大,早安!
Record ID: 1303087837R001 From: 台灣
回信發言人:台灣鄉土情, on 18/04/2011  08:57:04 (IP code: 72.37)

看到如此好文,我的內心充滿感激!

為了教育下一代,挖大,您辛苦了!

我給您拍拍手,我給您放煙火!

好文,我推!我再推!我狂推!

得此好文,怎是一個讚字了得!

Record ID: 1303087837R002 From: 台灣
回信發言人:QOO, on 18/04/2011  09:04:37 (IP code: 133.21)

慘了∼

挖大被上面那隻蒼蠅黏得好緊,呵呵∼

Record ID: 1303087837R003 From: 台灣
回信發言人:donkey-rider, on 18/04/2011  09:04:45 (IP code: 199.64)

挑戰耐度極限的又來了, 呵呵!

Record ID: 1303087837R004 From: 紐西蘭
回信發言人:vegga, on 18/04/2011  09:06:52 (IP code: 134.106)

常常可以在巷口看到一隻土狗表演聞自己肛門的特技



口合 口合 口合. . .



-

Record ID: 1303087837R005 From: 台灣
回信發言人:台灣鄉土情, on 18/04/2011  09:07:22 (IP code: 72.37)

>>>【沒有放射性核種會由地下水洩露的可能】。
>>>因為流進來的水會帶少量鹽份進來,水會持續地被蒸發掉

請問挖大,台灣應該沒有可以儲存高階核廢料這樣的環境吧?

Record ID: 1303087837R006 From: 台灣
回信發言人:東海之翼, on 18/04/2011  09:14:23 (IP code: 141.151)

●肉羹米粉情:

根據我的瞭解,台灣只有你身上有這樣的儲存環境;只要你用手指將你的屁眼掰開,就可以完成高階核廢料的入庫作業。

Record ID: 1303087837R007 From: 台灣
回信發言人:達比修有, on 18/04/2011  09:34:00 (IP code: 0.64)

鄉土情是令人討厭!

但挖大的論據確實比馬凱老師好一萬倍!




Record ID: 1303087837R008 From: 美國
回信發言人:東海之翼, on 18/04/2011  09:36:11 (IP code: 141.151)

●中國國民黨黨員老郭:

比起肉羹米粉情,你到處炸版的行為也好不到哪裡去!還曾經濫用賴版主的名義!

Record ID: 1303087837R009 From: 台灣
回信發言人:AMIGO, on 18/04/2011  09:39:41 (IP code: 179.151)



請問挖大,可否開放轉載到個人blog或者Facebook?

謝謝!



Record ID: 1303087837R010 From: 台灣
回信發言人:999-純銅, on 18/04/2011  09:42:58 (IP code: 129.3)

關於地球科學~~ 我很好奇一件事~

像 鐳 鈾 ...這些金屬~~
在尚未被開採出來前~~~ 會造成產地放射性污染嗎?

Record ID: 1303087837R011 From: 台灣
回信發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  09:54:38 (IP code: 233.222)

AMIGO:

  沒問題,所有我的貼文都歡迎大家多多轉載,也可以不用注明出處 ^^

Record ID: 1303087837R012 From: 台灣
回信發言人:AMIGO, on 18/04/2011  09:56:33 (IP code: 179.151)



感謝挖大授權!



Record ID: 1303087837R013 From: 台灣
回信發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  09:58:51 (IP code: 233.222)

999-純銅:

> 在尚未被開採出來前~~~ 會造成產地放射性污染嗎?

  那是自然 decay,反應速度很慢,用過的燃料棒不但成份上 concentrated,更是激發了連鎖反應後的東西,強度上強過礦石至少是百萬倍以上。

Record ID: 1303087837R014 From: 台灣
回信發言人:達比修有, on 18/04/2011  10:01:07 (IP code: 0.64)

挖大,

小弟建議您將這些文章貼到TaiwanOnline (前媒抗,本版手癢陛下也在那裡貼文),

還有 Nownews (前東森新聞, 包含藍,綠,紅讀者,是台灣造訪人次最多的新聞網站, 本版 蕭惟仁先生 和 傅雲欽律師 常常在那裡貼文章).

謝謝!

Record ID: 1303087837R015 From: 美國
回信發言人:Simon, on 18/04/2011  10:02:20 (IP code: 184.177)

謝謝 挖大

Record ID: 1303087837R016 From: 台灣
回信發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  10:09:48 (IP code: 233.222)

達比修有:

  我有些是圖加文一堆有的沒的,還有一些相關連結在裡面,我不清楚其他網站是否能隨我想要的方式呈現,所以只好請大家多多幫忙轉貼,或是節錄加上連結過來都可以。

  我是完全開放大家轉載拷貝的。

Record ID: 1303087837R017 From: 台灣
回信發言人:西拉亞, on 18/04/2011  10:17:22 (IP code: 13.147)

挖地雷大大

可否請教一個問題,廣島的原爆和福島的核外洩有什麼不同?

廣島現在是可以住人的,那福島與周邊的情況呢?

Record ID: 1303087837R018 From: 台灣
回信發言人:HUNTER, on 18/04/2011  10:42:42 (IP code: 197.9)

參考:比基尼環礁水爆



In 1968 the United States declared Bikini habitable and started bringing a small group of Bikinians back to their homes in the early 1970s as a test. In 1978, however, the islanders were removed again when strontium-90 in their bodies reached dangerous levels after a French team of scientists did additional tests on the island.[9] It was not uncommon for women to experience faulty pregnancies, miscarriages, stillbirths and damage to their offspring as a result of the nuclear testing on Bikini.[10] The United States provided $150 million as a settlement for damages caused by the nuclear testing program.[11]

Since the early 1980s the leaders of the Bikinian community have insisted that, because of what happened in the 1970s with the aborted return to their atoll, they want the entire island of Bikini excavated and the soil removed to a depth of about 15 inches (38 cm). Scientists involved with the Bikinians have stressed that while the excavation method would rid the island of the Cesium-137, the removal of the topsoil would severely damage the environment, turning it into a virtual wasteland of windswept sand. The Council, however, feeling a responsibility toward their people, has repeatedly contended that scraping Bikini is the only way to guarantee safe living conditions on the island for future generations.[citation needed]

Bikini Atoll was entered into the list of UNESCO World Heritage sites in August 2010.

Record ID: 1303087837R019 From: 台灣
回信發言人:笑看, on 18/04/2011  12:12:07 (IP code: 171.109)

簽到,進欄聽挖大滴課

^^

Record ID: 1303087837R020 From: 台灣
回信發言人:什麼和什麼, on 18/04/2011  12:54:41 (IP code: 103.23)

不知法國和德國核廢料是否因Asse II 漏水而搬到蘇俄?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/07/photogalleries/100708-radioactive-nuclear-waste-science-salt-mine-dump-pictures-asse-ii-germany/

Record ID: 1303087837R021 From: 不詳
回信發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  13:31:22 (IP code: 233.222)

  那些是低階和中階的核廢料,真正的大麻煩--高階核廢料--問題還沒開始咧!

Since the 1960s the Asse II chambers in Lower Saxony (map) have served as storage sites for more than a hundred thousand barrels of low- to medium-level nuclear waste.

Low-level waste isn't considered dangerous to handle, but medium-level waste may need shielding before disposal—such as encasing reactor components in concrete—according to the World Nuclear Association, which promotes nuclear energy.

Record ID: 1303087837R022 From: 台灣
回信發言人:什麼和什麼, on 18/04/2011  13:57:49 (IP code: 103.23)

所以那些照片全是低階和中階的核廢料放到鹽丘裡的狀況?

http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/china_world/20101111/00425_001.html

Record ID: 1303087837R023 From: 不詳
回信發言人:挖地雷, on 18/04/2011  14:17:05 (IP code: 233.222)

  對,高階的核廢料都還堆在核電廠裡。

俄羅斯為了促銷核反應堆,向海外買家提供核廢料回收服務。不過,俄國銳意開拓核廢料加工和儲存業務,並不代表該國擁有永久儲存核廢料的理想條件,若該國本著生意不做白不做的心態,接收來自各地的核廢料,那些出口核廢料到俄羅斯的國家和地區,只不過是將安全隱患轉移給他人。

歐盟能源專員厄廷格之所以反對成員國將核廢料運往歐盟境外,相信是要迫使她們制訂一勞永逸的核廢料棄置方案,藉以向世人示範何謂負責任的核廢料處理方式。

Record ID: 1303087837R024 From: 台灣
回信發言人:, on 18/04/2011  18:30:50 (IP code: 177.158)

發言人:挖地雷, on Apr 18/2011 08:50:37 (IP code: X.X.233.222)
回信發言人:台灣鄉土情, on Apr 18/2011 08:53:31 (IP code: X.X.72.37)

挖大,早安!


Record ID: 1303087837R001 From: 台灣
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回信發言人:台灣鄉土情, on Apr 18/2011 08:57:04 (IP code: X.X.72.37)

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看到如此好文,我的內心充滿感激!

為了教育下一代,挖大,您辛苦了!

我給您拍拍手,我給您放煙火!

好文,我推!我再推!我狂推!

得此好文,怎是一個讚字了得!

===================================================

都還沒有讀就可以歌頌了

Record ID: 1303087837R025 From: 台灣
回信發言人:一時興起, on 18/04/2011  18:39:38 (IP code: 133.233)

長知識、增見聞的好欄!

讚一個!

Record ID: 1303087837R026 From: 台灣
回信發言人:PLA萬歲, on 19/04/2011  00:42:37 (IP code: 217.245)

不蓋核電廠...
蓋別的.也是一堆人抗議啦.

Record ID: 1303087837R028 From: 台灣
回信發言人:什麼和什麼, on 19/04/2011  02:59:40 (IP code: 103.23)

法國做到生意後,不知俄羅斯能否再接核廢料回收生意?
http://www.china.areva.com/china_home/liblocal/docs/Publications/China%20press%20kit%202008_CN.pdf

真不知俄美在做什麼?
http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/10/15/26124958.html

Record ID: 1303087837R029 From: 不詳
本篇到此告一段落———版主    2011-04-24 04:12:00

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